Now we have to pay for remote access? Disappointing if true
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Time for me to get Wireguard server working on my router. I figure any of my free access cloud services could also go away anytime. This is got to be a last ditch effort to keep the business alive. I would be wary of giving the company the $30 even if you thought it was fair for a year, because they may not be in business in a year. Apparently, the company was not sufficiently bankrolled.
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@Jack McGee. After it was pointed out that you can't even buy a RainMachine from anywhere (including their own website), I believe you are correct. They're free falling, and grasping at whatever they can to slow or stop the momentum. I do not believe they will survive another year, so those opting to pay, are throwing money away.
This now feels very much like how the demise of MoviePass felt. Support is not even calling customers back (including me).Rachio appears to be in my future, soon.
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Fine, sh… happens often in this type of business and I can understand they are struggling. But one thing they should learn from this experience is that customer loyalty buys a lot of miles if you are transparent and honest. Had they sent their customers a clear and documented message about their financial situation and need to change their business model to survive, I, for one, would have forked out the 30 $. But not without asking and without explaining as if our money was taken for granted. I guess a lot of us here who have now time to take care of their lawn have a lot of business experience. We could have helped. It is not the failure that is damaging it is the way you fail.
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Here’s another perspective, but I understand the frustration.
I plan to pay $30 — not because it’s fair, but because I still believe in this product. As and early adopter and RM fan, I bought this device for many of the same reasons listed here. Many are threatening to leave, but I’m not sure that there is a great alternative. I’m sure I’d we took a minute to reflect, there are many similar situations where we didn’t complain and just paid because it was worth it.
RM remote access is worth 30$/yr—it’s as simple as that.
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@windandsky - That’s completely your decision to make. That being said, I think your comment is rather narrow-sited. The way I see it is that it’s a terrible, TERRIBLE, deal to pay $269 for a device that:
Does NOT have remote access - has restricted and limited mobile notifications - has restricted and limited support options - has restricted and limited smart integrations - does NOT include future feature updates - does NOT include shared access - does NOT include advanced watering reports - and more. The only way to get those things is to pay $269 for the device (what I paid for my device) and then $30 every year.
Never EVER would I have made that decision. Rachio is arguably a better device, even before this subscription policy change, so it would have been a no-brainer decision which device to purchase. To put it simple, it’s not legal or ethical what they’ve done.
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I think Francesco Mottaz got it right. For me, a lot has to do with the way they went about it.
The attitude that was conveyed is that we are lucky we have the option to pay for this amazing new premium service. This is just insulting to the base of long time users who know that there is nothing new that's offered, and we're now just paying for something we already had.
Had the company been transparent in their message, that would have gone a long way in terms of customer acceptance. If they had been honest, and explained that due to lack of devices to sell, they are losing money, this would have created a way for an existing customer to understand the situation. Had they been forthcoming, and stated that this is the only way for them to avoid going under, I think many more would have understood and considered supporting the company.
As for me, I'm debating it. I can afford the cost, like the sprinkler controller, and support the "mission" so to say. However, I don't appreciate the approach the company took at all.
EDIT to add: This reminds me all too much of Fry's Electronics near the end. For quite awhile, the aisles were basically empty with no name brands, and the customers could clearly see the writing on the wall. Yet, the company continued to claim that they were totally okay, and just in a transition period. They lied to their customers, and I feel like Green Electronics is doing the same.
If this company manages to pull through this tough time, it's going to be very hard to regain the loss of customer trust and loyalty they once had. It's something that's very easy to lose, but VERY hard to gain.
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It's very sad to see RainMachine go out of business, they had a really great product.
But why did the CEO think he could just run off with all of our money? This class action lawsuit is going to be a nightmare for all of us to deal with and it will destroy him as well. Why didn't he just sell the company and walk away? You can't just brick everyone's system and flee the country.
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https://support.rainmachine.com/hc/en-us/community/posts/6515692006039/comments/6530542261655
@Anthony G shared this earlier, and it is possible that some folks may not have read this (based on some of the comments that I read)
While kludgy, they do allow free remote access using Direct Access Port forwarding
https://support.rainmachine.com/hc/en-us/articles/6491261659415-Direct-Access-Port-Forwarding-Needs user to know their public IP (which could change every now and then), or sign up for a dynamic dns service, and enable port forwarding (which I'm not a big fan of). So, in theory, they may (I'm not a lawyer) have met the requirements of what they offered when we purchased the rainmachine
Before y'all start yelling at me, I'm a consumer too (I do not work for rainmachine, and do not agree with their current approach) - but wanted to offer this URL for folks that want to set up remote access.
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I had a similar thing happen with my Insteon hub, except instead of Insteon charging the users, they just closed their doors and I lost access to my Insteon home automation hub.
What is interesting about the Insteon story though is the following blog post. After Insteon went under, there was a group of users that came in and bought the company and turned the lights back on. So perhaps this can be a model for Rainmachine. As soon as they go under, it might be possible to purchase them for pennies on the dollar and re-open and then handle the subscription model the correct way.
https://www.insteon.com/blog/2022/6/9/fnustys354bfmcmchr36wgvrn5h41z
Here's the actual email I received:
Hello,
In case you missed my blog post, my name is Ken Fairbanks and I am leading a small group of passionate Insteon users that have successfully acquired Insteon. Like many of you, our homes are powered by Insteon’s amazing dual-mesh technology and highly configurable products.
Like you, I was outraged at the sudden loss of connectivity to my Insteon Hub without warning. Many of you discovered just the other day that the Insteon Hubs began coming back online. While we didn't intend to surprise you again, our first priority was restoring access to your hubs immediately even before we had access to send you this email. Every day more customers were giving up hope so it was critical to get that restored as soon as possible. We are aware not all functions are back online but we are actively working on it. We hope you understand this urgency and appreciate your patience.
Here's a list of Insteon Hub services we are actively working on or have completed:
- Access to Insteon Hub: Completed
- Apps available in Google Play and Apple App Store: Completed
- Push notifications: Completed
- Email notifications: Completed
- Amazon Alexa skill availability: In process
- Google Assistant availability: In process
In addition to the efforts above, we are working to see what inventory we have available as well as reaching out to factories to restart manufacturing.
Going forward we are committed to responsibly re-building the Insteon business. Our commitment to you, as part of the Insteon family, is to listen, communicate and be as transparent as possible in everything we do.
With that in mind, our immediate plan is to make the Insteon Hub services a self-sustaining business. This is where we need your help. To properly and responsibly run and support these services we will be introducing a yearly subscription fee of $39.95, or $69.95 for two years.
We are working to finalize the details of the subscription and should have more information as well as ways to purchase it by next week. Meanwhile, I would love to hear your thoughts. Please reach out here.
We will also be posting updates on Insteon’s social media accounts so if you don’t tend to check email as often, you can get updates on the Insteon blog, twitter, facebook, and reddit.
Thank you all for your patience. We look forward to sharing this new journey with you.
Best regards,
Ken Fairbanks
CEO, Insteon Technologies
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Reminder: direct internet access to your device through port forwarding will put your device and home network at a security risk. Hackers and bots are scanning for these weak systems, looking for bugs and exploiting them at scale. Your device is likely not being patched and a simple username and password is not enough.
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This is ridiculous and should be illegal to take away something people have already paid for - false advertisement at the minimum. Also, your instructions for setting up direct connect are incorrect. The only port I can get it to work on is 8080 which is already being used by another device on my network. I tried 18080 and it doesn't work. You also cannot setup a router to forward a port to two different devices (I have two rain machines), so where is says you can name them differently is incorrect.
Now that you're sticking it to your customers, perhaps hire someone to write your documentation that actually understands how port forwarding works. You are also painting yourself into a corner by specifying specific ports you support - perhaps hire a network engineer who actually understands networking?
Lastly, I will no longer recommend your product, and I am going to contact the WaterWise program in Utah and suggest they remove your controllers from the list of controllers approved for a rebate (likely the main reason you can sell so many controllers).
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Guys, don't drop these things directly on the internet via port forwarding. These are not fully hardened devices and you can be dang sure the company is not patching known vulnerabilities very quickly (if at all.) If you are going to make them public facing, at least put them in a DMZ so that a hacker can only turn your sprinklers on/off and not use it as a pivot point to gain access to the rest of your network. Your only safe option is to setup a VPN back to your own network. Sadly, that is beyond what the average user knows how to setup, or even has the hardware for.
Here's a list of known vulnerabilities, though I'm sure there are more that have not been found and reported on yet. I guess you could drop it on the public internet, get hacked and then sue the company as they did offer it as a possible option?
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If you don't believe me on just how unsecure these devices are, check out the following:
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I received a response by mail from the CA Attorney General's office and they said they will be reaching out to Green Electronics.
My first rainmachine forum account was suspended. I'm not sure why.
I've since purchased a Rachio and it is working quite well. There is no fee for remote access.
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Ironically, my RM died completely 4 days ago. Nothing changed, just one day it ran as scheduled, the next day it was a brick. It won't power on at all, even with a new AC adapter. I guess this saves me all the frustration of this subscription issue. I have already replaced the RM with the Wyze Sprinkler Controller since I have a bunch of other Wyze devices. The controller was only $70 and Amazon had it to me next day. So far, so good, but it's only been a few days. Wyze also uses a subscription model, but you know that from Day 1, and it's only $10/year after the first FREE year. Fingers crossed and good luck to you guys.
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My Rachio arrives tomorrow. The investors (whomever they may be) surely won't be pleased when they catch wind of the sudden abandonment of the RM product from long-time users. That doesn't translate to subscription $$$$ very well. You messed up Green Electronics.
Good luck to those of you sticking it out. ✌
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@Jared D. - You are exactly right. I've known for a very long time just how incompetent the RM leadership is. Everyone is now finding out just how incompetent they are. First of all, they don't even have anything to sell at the moment. And when/if they ever do, there will be a HUGE decrease in demand because there is no reason to buy a RM device and then pay a subscription to use it. There's just way too much competition out there that makes much more sense. Second, the one thing they had going for them was their dedicated and faithful user base of current customers. Well, they just crapped all over them and there is now a mass exodus because of it. Where are they going to make any money now? This is a sinking ship!
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Yes, it is disappointing that the RM is now a subscription model going the way of a lot of companies now including software companies like Microsoft, Adobe or Autodesk on the software side or HP printers now requiring HP-chipped ink or toner cartridges to operate properly. I don't like it either.
I'm curious, what's to gain by filing a class action suit against Green Electronics? I don't think the company is an Autodesk, HP or other Fortune 500 company with tons of cash behind it (I could be wrong) that can easily deal with the potential financial payouts of such a suit. Was anyone physically harmed by their product?? I don't think so. The suit might help to restore the remote service, and RM could turn around and reduce their support to the device.
I'm not trying to defend their actions, but if people are not happy with their decision, just say so as you have and move on by installing another device if you feel the need. Face it, it's the way of the world. I wouldn't be surprised if one day your remote starter for your car didn't work because the manufacturer decided that it wanted to charge you for that convenience after letting you do it for free for the last five years.
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I have seen it come and go .. was not sure if was my own connection or actually start stop working. When I launch the app and hit remote connect I do get pop up that offers to start trial .. clicking no on that sometimes I get in sometimes I am brought back to prior screen. Is that what you are seeing?
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Speaking of alternatives to rain machine; does seem that most of the market now offers wifi and weather.
Curious if others have thoughts what other systems have to offer these days.
What are you all considering ?
rain machine vs ranchio
IOS App: 4.9 stars on 77K ratings 4+ years old
rain machine vs rain bird
https://www.sprinklerwarehouse.com/product/lawn-irrigation/controllers-timers/wifi-smart-controllers
ESP-ME3 or ESP-Me = up to 22 stations
IOS App: 4.7 stars on 27K reviews 4+ years old
rain machine vs hunter
https://www.sprinklerwarehouse.com/product/lawn-irrigation/controllers-timers/wifi-smart-controllers
lot of options: HC = 12 stations, Pro-HC = 24
IOS App Hydrawise : 2.5 stars on 242 ratings 4+ years old
(links from google - no affliation)
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