New Premium Service
I am OUTRAGED to know that I can no longer access my controller unless I am connected to my local network. Your new policy is definitely directed at enhancing your profits at the cost of customer satisfaction. All of the enhancements you indicate as part of this plan are basically unnecessary. I plan on filing a complaint with the Better Business Bureau and the California Attorney General’s Office. This is price gouging and not supporting a product as it was originally intended. Expect a negative review on Amazon and any other on-line web site where your product is sold. I will be replacing my controller ASAP!
-
Now your getting technical. Just go check em out. Just giving people options that there are other ‘smart’ controllers that do not charge for ‘remote’ features. You ask me technical questions. I gave model numbers. Go check em out and see if it is an option for you. Maybe the EMT versions of the Rainbird timers you can if I recall. They did have an Ethernet port.
I also recall possibly a ‘WiFi module’ Rainbird controller can only use an app. If not then I don’t know. Got to pay RainMachine then. The app works just fine for me. We always have a cell phone on us usually wherever we go. Or just buy an iPad then for a PC to control your timers. A regular iPad is around $200. -
Yes, I am getting technical. I am equally disappointed with their decision, and I am looking for other options. But I am not a big fan of using mobile devices when I am not on the move. So far, I can see that the app and the web access work flawlessly over VPN (probably the most secure solution), over a proxy (less secure), and of course with direct port forwarding (least secure IMHO).
-
Unfortunately, setting up a VPN is not something very intuitive. If you do not have a somewhat technical/IT mind, it would be best to ask for help of someone who does. If you do - follow the instructions for your router, and you will find instructions on the internet on how to set up an appropriate client app on your iPhone.
Sorry I cannot be of more help. I do not want you and others to run into problems.
-
Rachio still only allows 3 minutes of manual control per zone when accessing from the unit itself. This limitation is what steered me to Rainmachine in the first place. I wish they would allow any number of minutes. I have a hose connected after the master valve, so to activate I just enable any non-connected valve, set the minutes on the Pro-16 and go water my garden manually.
-
I purchased the Pro-8 specifically because remote access was included among the features offered (I have a copy) for $189. Imposing a $30/year fee to continue using a feature we already purchased is morally and ethically wrong. It is also price gouging because the cost of providing remote access is nothing close to $30 a year. It is fine to change the terms for new customers who are advised of the charge but your existing customers should have been grandfathered.
The fact that new RM units are either end of life or unavailable says Green Electronics is receiving no product revenue. Had you played fair with your existing customers by telling them that Green is in financial trouble due to delayed product shipments and instituted a more reasonable charge of $10-$12/year; you would likely have received considerable support from your customers. Instead, you have chosen to stick it to us because you can. Poor decision!
My recommendations of RainMachine controllers has led to some purchases. No more recommendations.
Finally, I will note that many of us have been asking for some basic improvements in the software such as water metering with usable alerts. All chirps so far.
-
@jason. I do not have Rachio or know how it works. But I know with RainMachine I can have different programs. That are ‘deactivated’ normally but when I need to run it I can. Can you not do this with a Rachio? I mean set up a ‘manual program’ and water said zones for a ‘set’ amount of time. And then just ‘run the ‘manual program’? Not a quick manual watering. Can this be done. Don’t know if that is a way to work around a ‘quick manual’ watering that has a time limit of 3 minutes that you state?
-
This is junk. I understand if RM wants to change their model for future customers, but existing customers should be grandfathered. Period. Horrible business decision. I will switch to another controller before I pay ANY yearly fees to RM. Period. If you are paying for additional functionality, that's one thing. But if RM expects us to pay for things that have been included for years and advertised as included and if you don't pay those things go away, well, that's simply not going to happen. Period.
-
Long time customer who has referred many to RainMachine. Very disappointed and refuse to pay for this service. The premium service value is a joke, our purchase decisions were clearly made on the capabilities and cost. Will have to start looking for a replacement if the policy does not change. I agree, grandfather existing customers in to the Premium program.
-
This product is going the way of Skydrop (another bad choice of mine). Like skydrop, first customer service and support went to crap. Now you can’t control remotely without paying for premium service. Even before then this system was at best full of bugs. It ignored watering schedules and couldn’t be set to water with weather because it ignored that also. So I had to use it as a dumb controller with adjustments made via app. Which can’t be done any longer unless I’m at home. Admittedly, it often refused to follow dumb schedule also and often the only way to make it water was to go into garage and turn it on at controller. Time to choose another company that will go out of business. If I were you, I’d look elsewhere—this company is clearly going out of business in the next year
-
I’m also going to note that they are pulling this scam as we enter summer—for those in drought states and folks going on vacation, this may force them into at least a year subscription while they sort out alternatives or buy from a more reputable company. I’m sure that was something RainMachine considered
rachio is having a Father’s Day sale on their website
-
Actually, disabling a product several years after it was paid for is ILLEGAL. Green Electronics LLC - I am putting you on public notice that you restore our machines back to their original condition or I and many others will begin taking legal action against your company. Please also note, that we will be seeking damages beyond the costs of the device for the mental distress this is causing.
-
Total scam of a company. I customers place class action or selling a product with remote access and then all of a sudden force charging customers to pay to use it. I am sending this scam to my state attorney's office,. Ultimately they will be out of business and us customers who paid hundreds of dollars for these controllers will be out of money.
-
How they handled this was wrong. That being said, I feel bad for the position they are in because in today's world, we all expect software updates to either fix bugs or provide new features, and yet we don't want to pay for it. Software debugging and troubleshooting costs money. There were countless ways they could have handled this though versus how they did.
As for everyone saying you are going to sue them because what they was illegal, etc. I think you need to go back and read the EULA that you agreed to. EULA's are designed to allow the developer to change any and all parts of the agreement, the product, the service, and even terminate the agreement at any time. Unfortunately companies need to learn how to setup the software portion of their business better and figure out how they are going to pay for the years of development and tell the users that up front. What they are doing here is nothing different than what any company like Microsoft hasn't already done.
For those doing port forwarding/NAT'ing to your device, just don't. I already published the known vulnerabilities on this thread.
-
I don’t feel bad for RM, not even a tiny bit. Ever since I bought, each update created more problems than it fixed, and each time I tried to get help it took longer and response was more rude and less helpful. The last time I spoke with someone from RM (probably a year ago) I told him to polish his resume bc they were following every step Skydrop took before going out of business and thoroughly hated by their customers. They sold me a defective unit and then kept blaming software and promising the NEXT update would fix it (but didn’t) until it was literally one day past warranty at which point they said “oh, it can’t be fixed. Buy a new one”
Karma can be tough. Like trying to find a new job in a recession.
-
@RB - What you're failing to realize is that I purchased the hardware based on their advertised and promised features before ever even being presented with a EULA of any kind. Your thoughts on that don't hold up. And it's not just like what MS has been doing. They are terrible in their own right, but they are not comparable in any way. What RM has done would be like when I bought my BMW with Appple CarPlay included, then all of a sudden it no longer works. So I call BMW and am told that they decided to take it away and if I want it back I have to pay them a yearly fee. That is not ethical or legal.
Bottom line is that they did not sell me a service. They sold me a product with all that stuff included. You cannot take away what I already purchased and then charge me a new subscription service fee to get it back.
-
@Jestered - I understand your frustration, I really do, but I'm just telling you that you won't win in a court of law. By all means go for it, at the very least it will cost RM counsel/court fees and put them under, but sadly it will also cost you money to do it.
As far as my comparison to Microsoft, it is 100% valid. Microsoft used to give software away for free for the purpose of making a huge user and developer base, and then they came back and started charging for that software. That's how they became as big as they are now. The difference is, at the time they were doing that, there was no "cloud" services, there was no cloud. They were able to get away with it a bit more because version v.X of the software was free, and then at some point, version v.Y became a paid for product, but honestly, the outcome was no different. HUGE companies used their product for free, spent massive amounts of money on the infrastructure to implement it, managed it, etc. and then Microsoft came along and say "oh, now you want the NEXT version, well, we are charging for that now." As a huge company, you had no choice but to pay because it was cheaper than ripping out everything you had just put in place. I could show you countless software companies that did this same practice. Microsoft then went and basically did the same thing with O365. There are countless portions of O365 that were free at initial offering, and companies used those portions of it for free, and then they eventually started charging for those services once the user base was big enough and they had you locked in enough that you could hardly do without them. It's a horrible practice, it's incredibly deceptive, and yet it has been done on a scale 10,000x larger than RM.
As for your example of Apple CarPlay and BMW... Have you looked at what the car industry has been doing? They are doing EXACTLY what you described. They have sold cars in which they indicated something was included and then came back and said no, you have to pay to use. I love the blowback that BMW received for wanting to charge for Apple CarPlay, and a monthly subscription for heated seats and heated steering wheels. I realize that those were more clearly said up front so it was less bait and switch, but this one from Tesla certainly shows that RM is not alone in what they have done.
https://electrek.co/2021/07/18/tesla-is-charging-owners-1500-for-hardware-they-already-paid-for/
"This weekend, Tesla started offering their long-awaited Full Self-Driving subscription package for $199/month. Along with the package, Tesla is offering a $1,500 hardware upgrade for early owners who have old hardware that is not capable of full self-driving tasks.
The problem is, Tesla previously told those same owners that their cars were capable of full self-driving tasks and isn’t allowing those owners to take advantage of the new subscription scheme without paying again for a hardware upgrade that they already paid for."
https://www.motorbiscuit.com/car-companies-start-charging-monthly-fees-common-add-features/
-
@Daniel OReilly - Sorry, I see now it was on another similar thread. Here's a direct link to it.
-
@JB - I don't want to get in a back and forth with you because I don't have a problem with you, but I still don't understand the MS comparison. The big hole in that comparison is that you said MS gave away the software and then started charging for it. That is completely different than me paying for something, having it taken away, then charging me for what I already bought. RM did not give away for free my controller... I bought it.
And I understand that the whole world is moving to a subscription based model. It's a great model. I mean it's tough to beat a monthly or annual recurring revenue model compared to having to acquire a customer and then find ways of getting them to continue buying from you. I get it. I personally have worked in the SaaS (software as a service) field for the past 15 years. It's great. The problem is the bait and switch that was done in this case. It's unethical and marks the end of this company. That's all I really want is to watch them go under and it's clearly happening.
If they gave me something for free and then asked me to pay for it later (your MS example), then fine. If RM wants me to pay them a subscription for new features moving forward, then fine. But to rip away functionality that was advertised and sold to me already, then hold those things hostage unless I pay them again and again, is too much.
-
@Daniel - And it's been like that for a long time! They didn't patch it when they had the engineering resources to do so. Don't think for a minute that they are going to patch it while the company is sinking. They are in the middle of a money grab with this subscription garbage. Don't think they're going to give any of that away to engineers on the way down.
Please sign in to leave a comment.
Comments
98 comments